The schedule for the late Theorcratic Ministry School has been rerun for decades. I think it was a 2 year repeat cycle.
I guess they lacked inspiration. :-p
Anders Andersen
JoinedPosts by Anders Andersen
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Have they stopped writing new magazines?
by asp59 ineven if the world and organization(not for better,)change a lot from the 80s.
the watchtower articles seem exactly like the one we study in the ,80s.
there's a zombie feeling to them.
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The Netherlands - Upcoming peaceful protest to commemorate the effect of sexual abuse in closed communities such as JW (october 6th)
by Anders Andersen infacebook event link here.
translation of the dutch event description:.
foundation reclaimed voices organizes a peaceful protest to commemorate the effects of sexual abuse within closed religious communities such as jehovah's witnesses.. the location of the protest offers room to about 200 people.
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Anders Andersen
Translation of the Dutch event description:
Foundation Reclaimed Voices organizes a peaceful protest to commemorate the effects of sexual abuse within closed religious communities such as Jehovah's Witnesses.
The location of the protest offers room to about 200 people. It would be nice if we could be present with a nice group. People who experienced abuse, bystanders and allies who commemorate the effects of abuse within (closed) religious communities together, and who advocate for an environment in which every child can grow up safely.
Currently a dignified program that suits the goal of this protest is being put together. Among other things, persons who have faced sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses will be remembered by symbols and music. There will also be room to express your sadness, anger or concern in your own appropriate, dignified way.
Furthermore a manifesto will be handed to the mayor of Emmen [the town where Bethel is], who has promised to be willing to accept the manifesto.
Because the area where this protest is organized is limited in space and we want to have an overview of the people who plan to be there, we expect you to sign up for the protest in advance. Further details of the protest, such as the exact location, will be shared with those who signed up at a later time.
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EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: Angus Stewart QC on Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Australian Child Abuse Royal Commission (by Lara Kaput and Louise Goode)
by jwleaks inangus stewart qc, senior counsel, has had a long and distinguished legal career, beginning with his passion for justice in south africa, fighting apartheid, then later working in the truth and reconciliation commission, and more recently acting as senior counsel in the case studies on jehovah's witnesses in the australian royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse.
angus discusses, from his own personal point of view, and not representing the carc or the commissioners, what the journey was like, learning about the internal law and policy of watchtower society, how he became determined to stand for justice for all the victims and for the whole community of ex jehovah's witnesses and how he felt about the evidence being presented to him and the people presenting it.. interview by lara kaput and louise goode for jw community podcast.. https://jwcommunitypodcast.simplecast.fm/cf4d380d.
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Anders Andersen
I don't normally listen or watch any JW podcasts/videos. But this one is very cool.
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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Anders Andersen
So as far as a “legitimate” request is concerned, it’s illegitimate to request an independent investigation based on the words of former members.
By the way, who added that word "legitimate" to Jesus' words? He sure didn't say it. Are you now taking Watchtower words as gospel over what Jesus said?
In fact Jesus didn't specify what types of requests Christians should be willing to comply with, but the context speaks about turning the other cheek when being hit.
Is hitting someone illegitimate? Jesus wanted his followers to comply anyway.
Does the Bible specify anywhere what types of demands of requests from governments can be ignored?
Is 'illegitimate' part of the exemptions the Bible makes?
I'm not sure though if you really care about what the Bible says. After all you're on here all the time, associating and debating with apostates. Something table something demons?
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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Anders Andersen
it’s illegitimate to request an independent investigation based on the words of former members
Oh good, another loophole! Sorry Jesus, I didn't hear you when you spoke about that two mile thingy!
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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Anders Andersen
I'll even translate the quote for you:
It may be, for instance, that a [Dutch Minister] asks [JW leaders] to [start an inquiry into child abuse issues] that [they] would prefer not to do but that is not contrary to God’s law. How will [JW leaders] react? [They] may feel that unreasonable demands are being made on [their] time and energies, and [they] may therefore react indignantly. The result may be ill will. On the other hand, if [they] comply sullenly, [they] may lose [their] inner peace. The solution? [They should do] as Jesus recommended—go the second mile. [They should] not only [start the inquiry] but even more than what is asked. [They should do] it willingly. - The Watchtower, 2005 (revised edition)
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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Anders Andersen
How many child abuse cases were there in the Netherlands in WT?
We don't know, neither do you. An inquiry could clear that up.
The CC also didn't think they had a problem, but they started the inquiry anyway.
It was only through that inquiry that they found out the scope of the issue.
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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Anders Andersen
Why do I mention [the Catholic Church]? Because they are the standard of abuse coverups. They are the mesuring stick.
Indeed. In fact, the Dutch Minister specifically said so himself. I'm not even joking.
The Dutch government advised the JW to take a serious look at the way the CC in the Netherlands responded when it became clear many allegations of child abuse were reported.
What did the CC do?
- They started and conducted an impartial inquiry that first established the extent of the problem, then made recommendations to improve prevention and victim support.
- The CC publicly acknowledged they failed the victims, and apologized.
- They improved their policies.
- They provided professional support for victims.
- They setup a financial redress scheme.
The CC are the measuring stick indeed. The Minister urged JW to follow their example. The Dutch CC volunteered to assist JW leaders, as the CC has learned a great deal.
Guess what? JW don't want to do any of what the CC did.
JW come up short against the measuring stick.
Facts are not determined by popular opinion. RV can recruit a thousand people. In our civilized world, facts are determined by the court/legal system
Or by independent inquiries. Apparently Watchtower wants to be able to continue to say it's just RV's opinion, or they would have started an inquiry themselves (when the government strongly urged them they do that). Maybe JW don't want an inquiry to turn up the facts?
I guess JW leaders have never read Matthew 5:41 - If someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles.
Nor did they apply Romans 13:
Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. For those rulers are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword. It is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath against the one practicing what is bad.
Watchtower once wrote:
The principle Jesus taught, that of being willing to carry out legitimate requests, is valid not only for governmental requirements but also in everyday human relations. It may be, for instance, that a person with authority over you asks you to do something that you would prefer not to do but that is not contrary to God’s law. How will you react? You may feel that unreasonable demands are being made on your time and energies, and you may therefore react indignantly. The result may be ill will. On the other hand, if you comply sullenly, you may lose your inner peace. The solution? Do as Jesus recommended—go the second mile. Do not only what is asked of you but even more than what is asked. Do it willingly. In that frame of mind, you will no longer feel that you are being taken advantage of, yet you remain free to be master of your own actions. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005126?q=matt+5%3A41&p=par#h=1
Watchtower's own words condemn them.
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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Anders Andersen
Clearly they have made a determination to keep matters private if the victim wants it to be kept private and I am no expert in Finnish law but if you say that withholding this information on Watchtower's part is a crime then shouldn't it also be a crime for RV from not going to the police themselves as an organization or individual members in compliance with the law.
First, we're talking about Dutch law here, not Finnish.
Dutch law has mandatory reporting only for very severe crimes, such as murder and rape. Unfortunately sexual abuse of minors does not fall in this category (unless the abuse included sexual penetration under threat of violence or blackmail aka rape).
The law on mandatory reporting may be changed to include child abuse though. This a direct result of JW refusing to cooperate with an inquiry.
The law on rape was being revised already anyway; any sexual penetration without consent will be classified as rape. Under current law having sex with a sleeping, drunk or unconscious victim who is incapable of (not) consenting is not considered rape. Under new law it will be.
Anyway, back to mandatory reporting. It appears that if among the 300 cases there's a report of rape, RV would indeed have to report it to the police.
Given that they have already been in contact with a lawyer, and the police, and the DA's office, and the Ministry of Justice, I'm quite sure they have this covered somehow. No doubt at least one of the above informed them of their duties.
And from what I read it may be possible for the DA to exempt someone from mandatory reporting. Perhaps RV was granted an exemption given their function as a trustee to victims?
Or maybe RV has already reported rape cases to the police, and simply doesn't shout it from the rooftops to protect victims?
Anyhow, RV focus is not on whether or not Watchtower committed crimes by not reporting. Their focus is on improving the situation for victims and better prevention (see my previous post)
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Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community
by Anders Andersen intoday a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.
the politicians also let themselves be heard.
a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.
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Anders Andersen
Do they also have the “moral obligation” to see to it that the police investigate these alleged crimes?
Finally a remark that makes some sense. Of course it would be strange if RV would demand JW to report abuse, and not do it themselves.
Now it should be remarked first that RV doesn't simply say that JW elders should report all abuse cases to the police. Instead, RV wants JW elders to encourage victims to go to the police, and actively support them when they report to the police. RV does exactly that themselves: encourage victims to go to the police, and actively support them when they do.
RV also wants JW to actively encourage victims to seek professional help to cope with their trauma. RV does exactly that themselves: encourage victims to seek professional help, and refer them to a suitable organization or professional.
RV also wants JW to drop the 2 witness rule when deciding what actions they'll take to support a victim. And of course RV doesn't require a victim to come up with a second witness before they offer support.
RV wants that JW become more open and transparent wrt abuse. They also want JW to acknowledge and empower abuse victims instead of ignoring them and silencing them. RV does exactly that: speak openly over abuse within the JW community, acknowledge he victims and give them a voice.
So while your remark would have some merit if RV only demanded JW report all abuses cases to the police, it should be clear that RV tries to do exactly that what they want the JW to do as well.